OT: Crossover dampening options

[Elitopus1]

I had to google "damping" versus "dampen" and it seems like they would both be correct for this topic

I got my new crossovers for my 604G's finished and installed. I decided to disconnect them from the speakers and play some music just to let the oil caps burn in a litte. With the motor run caps I have noticed a slight difference in sound when they get some hours on them. I wanted to speed up the process a little.

With the Ashly turned about 3/4 up on the meters I can hear music coming from the crossovers. It sounds like it is coming from the coils but I could be wrong. Now I know you guys have a lot more experience with DIY here. So what can I do to get my crossovers to stop playing music?

My ideas would be to put some duct seal clay on each component. Or to spray some kind of thick rubbery mixture on them. I guess the issue with the spray is I will want to be able to change components on the crossovers. Any ideas?

Is this why you guys use active crossovers? .

Maybe I could try some patio pavers on top?

[BillWojo]

That's the coils vibrating. I doubt it will be a problem under normal conditions as 3/4 on your amp into those drivers will probably drive you out of the house. How does it sound with just a few watts showing on the meters?
I understand and agree with what your doing on the cap break-in. There is a discussion going on over at AK in the General Audio Discussion forum as to whether or not caps break in. Basically, if you have heard it, your a believer, if not it's a farce. Some say that all electronics would need cap break in than.
I thought about that and came up with a possible reason why some cap applications need break in.
Most electronic gear that have caps have the caps rated at near there working voltage for economical purposes. A 60VDC circuit may have caps rated for 80VDC.
It's not uncommon for crossover rebuilds to use caps rated at 200VDC or 400VDC, yet when we start the newly rebuilt crossovers up for the first time, we tickle the caps with just a few volts, sometimes less than 1% of it's rated voltage.
So it wouldn't surprise me at all that it takes some time for the caps to form or what ever they do during break in.
I remember the first speakers I ever recapped, a set of Klipsch Heresy's. Fired them up on my Mac tube amps and they squealed and squawked intermittently during the first 2 hours or so. After that they settled down and I was a happy camper..........until I heard a set of Altec's. You guys know how that story plays out.

BillWojo

[Elitopus1]

I guess my concern is with the coils vibrating at higher volumes. I like my music from medium to loud. These speakers are setup in my mancave. I have the quiet speakers in the living room.

I know these Altec's are not rated for a ton of power but that doesn't stop me from lighting up the amp meters. I was surprised how much power the A7's would take. The 817's would put out more than I want These 604's seem to be at a nice place in between

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And yeah I'm not sure if the cap break in thing is in my head or not. I think a lot of the audiophile talk is a bunch of BS. I work with electronics and know better. I also learned to never tell someone they don't hear something just because I don't hear it. Doesn't mean I don't think they are crazy

[bowtie427ss]

I decided to disconnect them from the speakers and play some music just to let the oil caps burn in a litte.

Did you insert a load in place of each of the drivers?

If not, then ~half of your crossover circuit was open and getting no voltage. This is just one reason why you want to be careful about hearing a difference.

Ideally, you would simulate the driver loads to maintain an appropriate load on the amplifier as well as to fully power soak the crossover network.

[westend9]

You must have these new networks attached to some type of material. It may be that the attached substrate is resonating.

As Bowtie recommends, placing a load on the network is a good idea and the completion of the circuit may diminish any spurious sounds. I'd sure try that before engaging in any damping to the networks.

[bowtie427ss]

I'd sure try that before engaging in any damping to the networks.

Strongly agree. Damping should be done last, after a thorough shakedown and verifying that everything is correct. Then, damp everything like you;re preparing for a major seismic event. If it moves, it needs to be damped or clamped, this includes wires.

[Elitopus1]

Yes I forgot to mention that I used some 8 ohm dummy loads. The components are zip tied to some wood boards currently. I was thinking about using some RTV to better attach them

[LowOhms]

GE Silicone 2 is the product you are searching for. Excellent properties. Just be sure to rub it in with your finger, on both surfaces, so it will adhere well. Let it dry over night. It will allow you to replace a part, if necessary, at a later date.

Caps need break in. A DynamiCap 4.0E or a 10.0 E - as I use across my amp's B+ supplies, and as a 2A3 Rk cathode bypass, takes a full 500 hours to sound optimal. A solder joint needs a break in, usually seven hours seems to do it.

Your VOTT takes power from the ASHLEY because you have it wired inappropriately. Zip cord I gave-up on 38 years ago. You have poor transfer efficiency throughout your system, due to inappropriate system wiring. You always say " I work on electronics", as though that qualifies you. I get a kick out of that Don. I bet my 3 Watt direct coupled amp would scare you, on my VOTT set up, as far as dynamic rendering !! Its such a shame, you are in Florida, and I am in Missouri, and you can't get over to give it a hear.

Don, going to certain audio shows can be helpful to broaden your audio experience. I go to RMAF in Denver, almost every year, last ten years. By the way, Herb Reichert at Stereophile rated the room I assisted ( Dennis Fraker's room, Serious Stereo ), as one of his two favorite rooms - among hundreds of audio exhibitors there. It ran Dennis' GPA 604s in a MLTL enclosures, and almost all the wiring was generally as I laid it out in my post .....which you ignore and blow off, since you are an " electronics technician ". Save your pennies, come and visit at RMAF 2017, you will hear it, broaden your horizons, and learn new and useful things !!

LowOhms

[bowtie427ss]

To sort of reinforce what LowOhms is saying i would share with you the reality that some of my more glorious revelations in audio very effectively overturned some of my very own pre-conceived notions and biases.

It's a shame that we don't all live just across town from one another. Many facets of audio we can wax poetic about, and share novel length threads about. But, the true reality of subtle details is all in the first hand experience.

I really have come to despise the human nature, and conflicting personalities that find their way into every discussion that broaches the topic of wire. The notion that "wire is wire" in the realm of the enthusiastic audio hobby is utter bullshit. Of course, until they experience the revelation for themselves, most are likely to continue slurping the mainstream kool-aid.

That said, i would strongly opine that if you wired your speakers in a fairly resolving system to Jeff's spec, and gave yourself and the system some extended time to become "acquainted", the chances are extremely good that if you went back to generic lamp cord and casual wiring convention you would almost immediately hear a difference.

For me, part of the reward in taking this enthusiastic hobby to it's extreme of diminishing returns is in the revelations of how things we used to think don't, can't, and won't matter, actually DO matter and can matter to degrees beyond what a previously less open mind was willing to accept.

[Elitopus1]

My issue is I think there is not just one way to do things. If it were up to Jeff everyone would wire their system just like his. So then what about what about when he changes things up in a month for the next great wire or cap that he finds? I think he is trying to be helpful and just share what works for him.
I can do what works for me and what my baseline is. Otherwise there are too many variables.

I am not saying Jeff is wrong. He might (and probably does) hear things that I don't hear. All I can do is address the issues that I have and can deal with. Some things are based on my physical hearing abilities and others are based on my somewhat low budget for upgrades right now.

I think there is a science to audio and a religious side. I tend to stick with the science side. There are numbers and specs I can use to guide me in the right direction. That is my baseline. I know the religious side does exist in things like synergy between components and all the different sounding wires and components you can use. But that is not what I asked about.

I am interested in making my crossovers not make noise. I plan to listen loud with this system. I'm sure they will affect SQ at higher volumes as they are now. I appreciate the advice of the silicone. I only mentioned RTV because I can get half tubes for free

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Now you got me curious. What speaker wire does the average Altec guy use?